🇬🇧 Leading Between Corporate and Family-Owned Businesses – Leadership Lessons from Stefan Leitz

00:00:03: My guiding principle is the strategy.

00:00:06: A strategy gives an organization direction what is super important and a good strategy also have components, but we are not doing be honest to connect it and speed up.

00:00:26: Hello dear listener Welcome to The Lightfall podcast.

00:00:31: great year back here on this show.

00:00:33: today We're gonna talk about question that concerns interests many leaders.

00:00:40: How do you successfully lead companies into the future without losing their identity?

00:00:48: My guest today knows both worlds, global blue chip companies such as Procter & Gamble, Gillette, Vella and Unilever ,and traditional family businesses like Kühne.

00:01:06: to the Lightwolf podcast, Dear Stefan Leitz.

00:01:10: Hi Stefan!

00:01:10: How are you?

00:01:13: Great that you're here.

00:01:14: Stefan, You have built an impressively successful career across two at least somewhat different business worlds – large corporates and family businesses .You are a transformer of businesses and cultures.

00:01:30: I've seen it on several occasions very closely and you have real impact.

00:01:37: You have more than twenty-two years of experience, leadership experience in large corporates such as P&G, Gillette, Velaoni Lever... ...you're also on supervisory boards now in advisory roles and supervisory board.... And then you entered a slightly different world and you added so far fourteen years of leadership experience as a CEO in family businesses, specifically Kühne and Faber-Castell.

00:02:07: I would like to explore these experiences with you today.

00:02:10: but let's start with the personal question.

00:02:14: Stefan do remember who were as a teenager?

00:02:20: Nobody asked me this questions since long time!

00:02:24: A teenager, we're going back to the seventies or eighties early eighties and talking at the age of around fifteen till eighteen.

00:02:31: I would call.

00:02:32: I think i was a little bit late starter...I was totally energized about my motorcycle so every year got bigger one on faster run speed was wonderful for me And..i wasn't kind off not sure if international community know this.

00:02:50: in Germany trend called popper special haircut.

00:02:56: yeah we had special clothes and uh it was today.

00:03:00: i think it was ugly but I have this style for a year in one-and-a half or so.

00:03:06: And then, i changed.

00:03:08: i was more on the rebellion side.

00:03:12: when in frankfurt airport new base has been founded there were big demonstration And I was on the street demonstrating again deforestation and building this new runway for the airport.

00:03:23: I think then finally, i found my way in a balance but it was worse to try out both dimensions.

00:03:31: Yeah amazing!

00:03:33: To see...to understand these very interesting parts of your youth.

00:03:38: It shows you're willingness take position also readiness to learn and adapt when you have a good reason.

00:03:48: To change your position, right?

00:03:49: You were a teenager.

00:03:50: that's amazing.

00:03:51: it nicely leads into the topic of leadership which this podcast is mainly about And I'd like to understand.

00:03:58: When did you personally experience in Your career The difference between good and poor leadership?

00:04:09: So basically as has a new starter Into a job plenty of occasions where you can experience basically daily from your direct leader or two, three five levels above.

00:04:23: Luckily I spent eleven years at Proctor and luckily i had a big number of great leaders around me and create great bosses And hardly remember one or two whereas they say wow this is strange behavior?

00:04:43: the so-called bad leadership, and components of being not really listening to local management or team or expert.

00:04:53: To be disconnected from reality partly from competition for customers... ...and not differentiate enough that there are some things which are global.

00:05:04: in some elements are local or regional.

00:05:07: So this was at a time when we introduced The New Way in the German retail industry, which was one of theoretically best thoughts through elements I've ever seen in my career.

00:05:21: It was so strong.

00:05:23: at the same time there were some missing element remaining competitive and execution asking what will this lead to our customer space?

00:05:36: This is an element that I remember But I'm grateful and so happy that i enjoyed so many leaders where which helped me to develop myself To the person.

00:05:49: Yeah And out of this moment because we were both together in the same company, I was involved In this initiative in a different way than you?

00:05:57: I smelled trouble.

00:05:59: if You and I if you were to experience this new way again Would you cancel it all together Or would you do it but in a different way?

00:06:12: I wouldn't cancel.

00:06:13: It, i will definitely do it in the different ways.

00:06:16: one of the differences is better preparation to be external stakeholders and customers.

00:06:22: another thing as i would face certain elements that was too much into short time unprepared.

00:06:30: The fund amends have been brilliant The execution and the deployment of the plan, and preparation should have been improved.

00:06:41: I fully agree!

00:06:43: Now a little inspired by this but much more inspired by your career Stefan.

00:06:47: you've done it in so many different contexts In so many companies and countries.

00:06:55: You're running big sizeable global business.

00:06:58: now.

00:07:00: If you had to describe good leadership in one sentence, not from textbook but your own practical experience.

00:07:08: How would you describe leadership?

00:07:12: I would phrase which i learned for my father and the little boy.

00:07:18: he said treat people like you want be treated yourself.

00:07:25: This is not from a textbook, and this isn't any university.

00:07:29: I think that's the lesson of life – it's so true!

00:07:32: Of course people want to be treated differently because they are different than individuals.

00:07:40: At the same time if you combine these with the solid foundation of what we learn in our career or education What good leadership all about?

00:07:51: It brings us together.

00:07:54: the elements which I interpreted together with was, i call it a three C. Which is a guiding principle for me.

00:08:03: that says clarity communication and consequences.

00:08:09: And this all about leadership to get and provide clarity of companies objectives strategies what's needed to reach their objective how?

00:08:24: Communicate this properly, as well as expectation management.

00:08:28: Clarity what do I expect from which team?

00:08:31: From rich brand category country function leaders.

00:08:36: communicate it clearly in digestible words.

00:08:41: Management language for managers but easy to understand and digest language To the rest of the companies because everyone every nationality cultural and educational background has to understand clarity of direction, or the company.

00:09:02: To understand what is my role to play where I can add value in contribute?

00:09:08: And then The last C is consequence execute with consequence an eye.

00:09:14: I learned that some years ago under estimated communication it's not just one or two times on its own verbal communication It's not only email, it is what we write.

00:09:28: Not just what you say but like behave.

00:09:31: This has a bigger impact constantly and this creates trust and reliability.

00:09:38: What I experience in a lot of companies including some big corporations where i was working are the consequence.

00:09:47: Consequence interesting why?

00:09:50: In Europe mainly in Europe maybe globally.

00:09:53: Consequences that a lot of persons have negative impact.

00:09:57: You think, oh am I fired or not happy?

00:10:01: But it has two sides.

00:10:03: Fifty percent consequence is positive because i get bigger job and promotion.

00:10:09: I got recognition for the big project.

00:10:13: this is consequences as well.

00:10:17: This what we need to balance but with my experience have almost fear to pull the black and provide a consequence if they are negative.

00:10:31: Specifically, I experienced some leaders in big corporations where there said okay... In half-a year i get new job anyway.

00:10:37: my successor should solve this issue here.

00:10:40: Let's park it on!

00:10:46: On that note Stefan very good description simply memorisable clarity, communication and consequence or consistency.

00:10:58: One of the elements in there is a topic that I know as a passion-topic for you.

00:11:05: You've practiced it ever since I met you which was more than three decades ago.

00:11:09: It's the topic of feedback offering praise And offering constructive criticism while both have the same intent when done well intend to help another person.

00:11:25: I observe differences in them, praise is easier to give and easier to receive because it's more of the same.

00:11:34: you've done something well so all you need to do is repeat the same while when we criticize someone's behavior It's a little bit more challenging cause.

00:11:45: you need change something but i know that your deeply convinced This respect that your father shared with you and treat others the way.

00:11:56: You want to be treated by The Way.

00:11:58: this is the reason why I'm in the supervisory board of reboot, the future an organization founded by Kim Pullman Which?

00:12:05: Is all about spreading more respect than the world.

00:12:08: in the spirit of Your Father And the conviction he shared was you do you see a difference around the word right now as if Faber Castel CEO you're responsible for dozens of countries?

00:12:22: Do you see a difference in the world, In the attitude to honesty and the attitude To consistency and consequence?

00:12:31: Yeah.

00:12:32: There are common ground and rules And there also massive differences across regions or even countries.

00:12:42: At The same time if you peel the onion deeper You'll see this even within Germany for instance different personalities how they scope with this.

00:12:53: And I think if i look at my experience back, there is the concept of feedback.

00:13:02: it is appropriate around the world.

00:13:06: The difference is... ...the pace.. ..the sequence.... ...the audience and the way you provide it.

00:13:17: This is slightly different.

00:13:20: What I mean by that?

00:13:25: People globally feel easier, much easier to provide positive feedback.

00:13:29: Hey Stefan!

00:13:31: You have done a great job and that's easy but does this add value?

00:13:37: The value is if I said Stefan you've done a good job And what i like specifically in your presentation was A B N C What also experience leaders avoid and try to escape from critical feedback But this is even more value-adding than the positive one.

00:13:59: The positive motivates, it's easy but the true value is I as a leader take my time to rethink.

00:14:08: how can i make you better leader or better person or colleague and sometimes even better boss to me?

00:14:17: And This takes

00:14:19: courage

00:14:22: because there are some risks That.

00:14:25: oh, you don't like me anymore because I was criticizing You.

00:14:31: and with all respect we our objective as leaders is not To be everybody's darling.

00:14:38: And like by Everybody this isn't a job.

00:14:40: Our job is to develop companies in business and transform companies and part of these is critical feedback one.

00:14:51: but this is the biggest chance.

00:14:52: and coming back to my three C. This was a consequence, so what I experienced that in one of the big corporates i joined?

00:15:00: I realized some of my members of leadership team they were not scoping with the job to be done under responsibility because the environment expectations develop faster than they did yeah and provided on his feedback and they were very frustrated in the short term, and disappointed in the long-term.

00:15:22: And as a consequence, they decided to leave their company... ...to other smaller companies….

00:15:27: …and had great jobs and career there!

00:15:33: In one of my other companies I learned something from a board colleague who was a silver medal winner at a team sport And he quoted his experience and asked him, tell me how it is to be a team player in the silver medal winner.

00:15:51: I never met one before an after

00:15:53: Olympics right?

00:15:54: In olympics yes at Olimpix some olympic and in hockey German Hockey and you said listen The most impressive moment was in the final When the coach approached me in a very critical way and I could not understand why because i said hey coach was doing well.

00:16:13: Why are you criticizing me on the couch?

00:16:14: that guess what?

00:16:17: The moment, idon't criticize your anymore.

00:16:20: you know any don't have any added value and you're not worth it.

00:16:23: for me this is hard but but it tells u the real benefit and leaders should remember their responsibility.

00:16:32: if you receive feedback You should appreciate that the person took time to provide your feedback.

00:16:40: They should appreciate critical feedback even more than a positive

00:16:46: one.".

00:16:47: Yeah, awesome!

00:16:48: Now you have a couple of things which are very special Stefan particularly for you and in this podcast it's at least assumed Difference between the big corporates like Procter & Gamble, Unilever, Vela Gillette where you've been a leader and on the other hand family owned businesses.

00:17:16: Like Kühne and Faber Castellin.

00:17:21: based on your long experience what can those two kinds of companies learn from each other?

00:17:28: Well first of all I'm very thankful and grateful that I had a chance to experience both kind of worlds, the big corporations, multinationals and great run family business.

00:17:39: And there is no better or worse it's just different.

00:17:46: One thing i think what corporates could rethink and learn?

00:17:52: if you want to say this way from family owned mid-sized companies one has having stronger focus on development people skills in empathy and creativity.

00:18:03: Yeah, why?

00:18:04: Because in the big corporates with all respect it's not blaming.

00:18:08: I'm thankful for what i enjoyed there and learned their without respect.

00:18:12: uh... The system covers certain things.

00:18:17: as an individual you have impact but if you move to next job someone else will do that job.

00:18:28: yeah the empathy, which is getting more and more important in creativity.

00:18:33: In times of fast changing external environment what's going on starting with COVID-Russian war?

00:18:39: And U.S.

00:18:42: tariffs or deliberation day all these kind things you have to be more creative.

00:18:46: this was unique in parallel system.

00:18:50: The second thing I think it would be worthwhile to build careers and development of people in corporates, although remaining them longer on their current responsibility.

00:19:01: Sometimes job rotation is too fast.

00:19:06: you should run against your own cycle and records.

00:19:12: Success from today is a challenge for tomorrow.

00:19:15: that it's sustainable thing.

00:19:19: And thirdly, what I miss sometimes in corporates and this is different with a lot of family-owned midsize business.

00:19:26: What i missed was personal accountability if something did not work.

00:19:32: don't hide behind system and teams and be personally accountable as leader.

00:19:38: now on the other hand family from corporates one thing that really tried to bring it in sounds weird at first place.

00:19:47: As family business says, we're thinking in generations which is great.

00:19:51: and I'm not saying go to quarterly reports.

00:19:54: No but what i'm saying Is there is no long term without a short-term?

00:19:58: And find the right balance.

00:20:00: To have a generation of business you Have to deliver short term.

00:20:04: You have to deliver this fiscal year And if your first quarter Is behind expectations.

00:20:11: The second is planned anyway with lead times.

00:20:14: So speed up!

00:20:17: Fiscal year which happens yeah, but work hard on the learnings and correct of course and then you recover in a second.

00:20:26: And this mentality and sense of urgency would help some family business.

00:20:31: another thing which is i experience which is big opportunity to learn an implement appropriate way to the size of company people development.

00:20:43: So that means a real feedback culture in a structured way.

00:20:50: For instance, we had Faber-Castell introduced few years ago when I arrived at three hundred sixty degree feedback which was totally new.

00:20:59: We have an annual structured feedback approach... ...we have nine field performance metrics.. ..we identified talents and then talent management.

00:21:12: we have to keep on in a structured job rotation.

00:21:15: This is all people development programs, when I joined one of my questions set off.

00:21:21: questions was what does good leadership means at Faber-Castell?

00:21:24: and asked leaders around the world?

00:21:26: And I got different answers.

00:21:29: so provide clarity.

00:21:32: communication consequences We divided the quality.

00:21:36: What do we want to have as good leadership globally?

00:21:40: Then we communicated and the consequence was, we initiated a global six month leadership journey around the world with global leaders across countries in functions.

00:21:50: So people development is that big thing where mid-sized companies can improve to focus appropriate for their situation.

00:22:00: great and it's brilliant sharp specific naming of the learning that can go in both ways.

00:22:08: I've never heard it dead clearly.

00:22:10: thank you for sharing this Stefan, now your alluded to one point which i think in terms of scarcity or resources is balancing.

00:22:21: when UNI way back then in the early nineties started working four our first employer remember my first budget meeting and at first budget meetings was asked sit on the corner and shut up And basically listen, Pampas Europe.

00:22:39: It was a great learning experience all day great business decisions.

00:22:43: we talked about the resource called money and money matters.

00:22:46: I'm not naive but he didn't talk at all about the resources called time.

00:22:52: now i love this life.

00:22:54: like you I appealed to God twice by thinking, may god please double the day of two forty-eight hours.

00:23:03: But i didn't even get a response!

00:23:06: There is no way around it Stefan.

00:23:08: On one hand side there was ever more opportunities and information but it meets the same limitation.

00:23:17: There are twenty four hours of time.

00:23:20: Now.

00:23:22: you will have that Challenge at times as well.

00:23:27: You're running six thousand people around the globe.

00:23:31: many People want your time?

00:23:32: Many things compete for your time.

00:23:35: How do you decide what you invest time into and whatnot.

00:23:43: Well first, that's a very difficult task to do And I have to admit this is not one of my core strengths just setting the right priorities.

00:23:53: One thing which standing in the way to me it was I have a big passion for what i'm doing and uh, don't count hours or whatever And having a global responsibility.

00:24:06: in our company Someone is awake online all the time So late evening.

00:24:13: It's latin america an early morning asian people Send some emails or whatever Or you have an early-morning call now.

00:24:22: um What my guiding principle?

00:24:25: Is is the strategy.

00:24:28: A strategy gives an organization direction what is super important

00:24:36: and

00:24:36: a good strategy also have components, but we are not doing it's not only want to do that all so would know how to do this should be the north star at the general directions of strategy does not deserve a lot of time.

00:24:50: at the same time i dedicate alot of time in feedback and feed back is not always the formal one.

00:24:57: It is spontaneous feedback because it's my passion and I'm convinced that this drives organization and you have to walk talk, end-end at the sametime learned what are some most impact on this meeting?

00:25:16: To drive the business results because it is about outcome and business stuff.

00:25:23: And competition is tough, but at the same time you have to make choices.

00:25:27: in one of the things which I realized i just came from The OMR Festival In Hamburg here this week yeah, and I had a pleasure.

00:25:35: listen A couple Of people and One who really made an impact was guess what Heidi Klum?

00:25:42: fifty two or whatever Tom Brady, which was phenomenal and mind-blowing.

00:25:49: And both were asked what made you as successful?

00:25:54: Both said listen there are more beautiful lady than I was an AM satiety Which by the way she was our testimony when i was at Gillette and Browne.

00:26:04: and uh...I had a day we spent today with her in two thousand six in Hamburg so I reminded this one.

00:26:13: Tom also said I started late my career playing football, but both that it's about discipline.

00:26:19: And I leave the job when the job is done.

00:26:21: and now asked myself this as my attitude as well?

00:26:26: It is a question of that.

00:26:27: we are in different generation.

00:26:29: They're twenty years younger or ten years younger at the same time having work life balance maybe Jesus generational topic But find your sweet spot and find your hunger of success, whatever it is.

00:26:46: And then you dedicate enough time and don't watch at it but again I try to work hard to improve this.

00:26:56: Thank You for the transparency and vulnerability.

00:27:00: It's a tough challenge For many CEOs that i personally worked with.

00:27:06: thankyou for sharing This.

00:27:08: now think its obvious through our three decades as colleagues and friends.

00:27:14: And it's also obvious throughout this conversation today, Stefan how consciously you develop yourself so... How do you develop your self?

00:27:27: I think i'm very much grounded in my skills know that the impacts we can have and should have on organizations.

00:27:41: And I also know where need help in support, so it's about reflection

00:27:44: self-reflection.".

00:27:46: This is more important than ever as things are changing so fast.

00:27:50: if... If i would lead like a lead teams twenty years ago?

00:27:55: I would lead myself or nobody else people who run away So you adjust well.

00:28:01: Where do I get inspiration?

00:28:04: One of my thing I hear when I'm commuting and spending a lot of time in cars, on planes.

00:28:14: This gives me inspirations.

00:28:17: at the same time i selectively go to conferences like the OMR this week or from some consultants but I try to spend as much possible time with the people around the thirties, joining companies or in our company.

00:28:41: As well is my kids and their friends because they educate me learn a lot of things from them and get inspiration for thought

00:28:50: awesome thank you.

00:28:52: towards closing off this conversation are five quick questions section Stefan Quick Questions asking Quick answer.

00:29:04: What's the best advice you ever received?

00:29:26: And then my teenage daughter, mainly at this time.

00:29:38: She really indicated that she does not want to leave her home and I was struggling with the decision... ...and made a decision against the career for my family.. ..and I advised his friend and he said listen Stefan there are many great companies but you have just one great family and take care of your family.

00:30:00: And this was the best advice, then I'm thankful to God still

00:30:05: today.".

00:30:06: Wow!

00:30:07: What a great piece of advice...I currently get goosebumps all over my body.

00:30:12: Yeah me as well remembering these discussions.

00:30:14: yeah

00:30:16: amazing Stefan what is your go-to stress tool when things gets stressful?

00:30:25: Well luckily from nature i can full on in full off relatively easily.

00:30:32: I did not work on this, it happened.

00:30:34: I sleep very well and all these kind of things.

00:30:36: but what helps me is spending quality time with the family whenever possible being in mother nature if its gardening or just walking to shores off river Elbe where i'm living Hamburg aswell having a weekend trip somewhere else or spending time with friends, this is where I re-energize as well.

00:31:03: Great!

00:31:05: Is there a quote book or podcast that inspired you recently?

00:31:10: Well... Have you heard about this podcast called Lightwalls?

00:31:16: Yeah, I'm listening to this frequently.

00:31:19: Listening other Lightwall podcasts as well like OMR and kind of everything related somewhere to leadership and strategy.

00:31:29: Recently...I just started a book which i found in India In the Bookshop Which is called Superfast Lead at Speed.

00:31:40: It's from Soviet Devonshire And it inspired me because speed is the new currency.

00:31:47: I love speed, i experienced that majority of organization and managers in our company have difficulties to scope with a changing speed business.

00:31:58: so hope you get some insights from this books.

00:32:02: And I'm reading a book very easy to read.

00:32:06: I got it at Christmas from my assistant Steffi Hoffnungslos Optimistik, so hopelessly optimistic Which is different mindset that you focus on things which work.

00:32:17: everybody complains about the German Railway Company always too late Sixty percent on time.

00:32:26: yet Let's talk about the sixty percent of good things and I like this very much.

00:32:31: Awesome.

00:32:32: thank you so much chef.

00:32:33: and as we're closing this there are thousands of people here on the call listening to do now.

00:32:39: If you could leave them with a key message what would it be?

00:32:44: more honest in business honesty and more speed in business competition doesn't leave us time for any games internal functional department games, internal politics or behave yourself at the biggest knowing everything this is outdated.

00:33:06: Be honest be connected and speed up.

00:33:12: Brilliant!

00:33:13: Dear Stefan.

00:33:14: This was so insightful.

00:33:15: I've learned a ton.

00:33:17: it was exciting.

00:33:18: It was truly deeply interesting to listen to your path To listen to you story And its been deeply insightful for everyone who is here on the call.

00:33:27: So thank you very, very much... ...for your time and being our guest today dear Stefan Leitz!

00:33:35: Thank you very much Stefan for having their dialogue and the occasion.

00:33:38: I appreciate it.

00:33:40: See you soon, thank you Stefan.