🇬🇧 Successful in Europe – But in Asia Too? What You Can Learn About International Leadership | Christian Rahmig

00:00:04: Certainly what formed me as a person was my desire to work and live internationally.

00:00:10: Team spirit, positive thinking interest in other cultures And last but not least speed Agility & Speed.

00:00:27: Hello!

00:00:27: Welcome to today's Lightwolf Leadership Podcast.

00:00:31: It is my huge pleasure To welcome back A very special guest Dear Christian Ramig, welcome back to the Lightwolf Podcast.

00:00:43: Thank you Stefan!

00:00:44: Happy to be here.

00:00:47: Christian one of many things that impressed me about you is your positive mindset and your strong belief that great leadership starts and finishes with people.

00:01:01: You bring around thirty years international leadership experience... ...you lived & worked in Europe in the United States, and China.

00:01:14: In Malaysia And you've held full profit-and loss responsibility in major growing organizations for more than fifteen years most recently as the managing director ASEAN at SC Johnson overseeing eleven Asian countries.

00:01:33: You first joined me here on The Light Wolf Podcast back three year ago in an outstandingly successful episode.

00:01:40: We had thirteen thousand people on the call at that time.

00:01:43: Today we want to take our conversation into another direction and a step further And will shed more light On your experience, particularly In leading in Asia based on your experience over there and what can everyone in the call self-included learn from you regarding that topic.

00:02:14: And furthermore, a very personal note.

00:02:16: I'm honored to have you join our business team here as of twenty twenty seven... ...and i really look forward for bringing into your vast experience with your wonderful personality into work we do at our clients.

00:02:34: so also welcome here in our Team Christian!

00:02:37: Thank you, Stefan.

00:02:38: Can't wait!

00:02:41: Let's start with the person behind the leader and let's go a few decades back, Christiane If we go like forty years ago What were your likes as a teenager?

00:02:53: Well what I remember very well was crazy about fencing.

00:02:57: So the fencing sport...I practiced four or five times a week in everything else including school.

00:03:05: It was my second priority And you know, I liked it because it was a strong performance focus.

00:03:15: You needed to qualify to travel internationally through the World Cup competitions – from Venice to Paris which obviously was a great reward.

00:03:24: and what i also like about fencing is that there was finding the right balance between attacking and defending.

00:03:31: both was important and also anticipating your opponent will do.

00:03:36: next.

00:03:37: You would use sometimes strategy and finesse instead of power.

00:03:42: And also being able to drive fast decisions on the power, while I was not talented enough to really break through... ...I benefited a lot for life!

00:03:55: My today's circle of friends as an example consists still of fencers from those times.

00:04:02: And if I may add this Stefan, i also met my wife at the fencing hall and uh...this is where we fell in love.

00:04:08: Wow!

00:04:09: Well then it's a-at least double value that you received and probably the most.. The biggest value you can receive to meet their right partner To share your life with.

00:04:22: so congratulations to both Katrin & yourself.

00:04:24: but it happened in fencing.

00:04:27: Do you still remember when and where did happen?

00:04:30: Oh yes, it was many years ago.

00:04:32: I don't remember the year but in a fencing tournament where we both participated she and the female tournament, I'm at a male tournament that's when they met for first time so each other wanted to see eachother again.

00:04:48: Great!

00:04:49: That is really lovely experience.

00:04:52: you even met Katrin your wife during fencing.

00:04:57: You also pointed at a particular element, and I've never done fencing but it resonates with me which is taking decisions under pressure.

00:05:08: Is there anything you have learned?

00:05:11: And i believe that performance sports in the corporate world... There are lots of learnings that can travel both ways.

00:05:21: Have you learnt any thing about this?

00:05:23: Deciding under pressure from fencing that made you a better leader in the business world.

00:05:28: Good question I think it's.

00:05:29: um deciding, deciding under pressure is also means That you don't have a lot of time to make a decision and sometimes You have to take risk no matter if you decide To attack or If you decided not to attack And taking this risk controlled risk.

00:05:45: This Is for sure something i took away with me over The course Of my career.

00:05:51: Yeah Now, if you look back at your career so far.

00:05:55: Has there been a decision or experience that shaped you as a person?

00:06:03: Yes certainly what formed me was my desire to work and live internationally And it started with the selection of first employer which is an American company P&G.

00:06:19: And because I wanted to work abroad, in the headquarter at least once.

00:06:25: It happened though after being with P&G seven years.

00:06:31: it took me a while but later i would say that there was more conscious choice and desire for working.

00:06:39: cultures where fast growth is happening was needed in order to build teams and to build structure.

00:06:51: And that is also what brought me to Asia, first time to China in twenty twelve to twenty fifteen where I worked as a head of retail sales for the entire country.

00:07:03: great experience and later again much late again bought me back to Malaysia um... As general manager for Asian region And this also, I think shaped my attitude towards leadership and I'm convinced that you can only be successful as an international leader if you find the right balance between on one hand executing a global strategy in consistent and stringent way.

00:07:31: On the other hand have to desire and empathy to learn and identify local culture and strengths of people.

00:07:40: That's what I think i've learned and shaped also my leadership.

00:07:47: Talking about Leadership Christian, you have so much experience.

00:07:51: You probably experienced examples for both.

00:07:55: Could you share a specific situation where you felt well led?

00:08:03: Yes certainly!

00:08:07: I remember the situation very well And it has to do with giving and receiving feedback in a regular way, also an impactful way.

00:08:15: I had the luck of my career... ...to experience this quite often!

00:08:21: It's become another important tool for me as a leader.

00:08:26: So when i joined Essie Johnson as head of Central Europe some years ago My boss as president gave me a lot freedom but also the clear expectation that I must turn around organization, more engagement and also to business.

00:08:45: Years later when i achieved this he invited for a town hall And He gave me nice recognition.

00:08:52: More importantly... ...he give me small handwritten card with only one sentence on it.

00:09:00: The sentence was Dear Christian thank you for being game changer.

00:09:06: This card is still on my desk today in a small frame and it takes energy or I take energy from looking at it, time-to-time.

00:09:17: What wonderful example!

00:09:18: I can well feel how proud you must have felt after receiving this because not only was timed but very personal.

00:09:31: so that's great an example.

00:09:32: thankyou for sharing.

00:09:34: Feedback is key.

00:09:36: I think feedback is not only one of the four elements.

00:09:39: where you feed culture, You feel culture based on people who hire or promote and why?

00:09:48: I think your field culture.

00:09:49: when then?

00:09:49: how are you separate from people And in giving and receiving feedback?

00:09:54: That's a very powerful example of receiving wonderful feedback.

00:10:00: On other hand nobody perfect many bosses in your career, do you also recall anonymously an example of less good leadership?

00:10:13: Yes certainly.

00:10:15: I was intrigued when i had a boss or leader who was able to let me try out things and make mistakes but then also protected me and showed me the way... And I experienced the opposite that they have.

00:10:29: leaders did not care how I can actually make my first step and experience, uh in my own experience.

00:10:42: But they wanted to take everything... They've wanted to have everything under control all the time And there was a lot of learning.

00:10:52: This is something that I promised myself That i will become this type leader.

00:10:59: Thank you for sharing.

00:11:00: Let's zoom more into Asia leadership in Asia.

00:11:04: You've lived in China, you have lived in Malaysia being responsible for eleven Asian countries.

00:11:11: which of your European leadership beliefs did you have to question most working in Asia?

00:11:20: What I got wrong at the beginning that was the impactful communication and implementation of global standards.

00:11:27: i would say This is, of course important because this how we win and how we work globally.

00:11:37: So I take the joint business planning implementation as an example... ...I had a session with the Malaysian team to practice how to do joint business plan after they figured that it has been a miss in their past years And after this i asked them to prepare our joint business plans for upcoming totaltop visit where customers were with a retailer where I wanted to join as well.

00:12:03: And then when i checked in two weeks before on the preparation and asked how I can help, my surprise there was nothing done yet!

00:12:16: It really wasn't that it had a lack of willingness but it became clear they didn´t know what to do.

00:12:29: how to delegate this task, and also explain not only the what.

00:12:37: What was missing for them is how do it?

00:12:40: The expectation was that I would give a clear guidance step-by-step provide templates be your role model show the way and keep direction along the way.

00:12:53: So that was the clear expectation.

00:12:55: And since I haven't done it, since I was delegating more in a European way assuming people want to have their freedom how they can get results... ...I wasn't successful and nothing happened.

00:13:09: It's rather perceived not as positive but as a threat for people To just give them the vision where you wanna go and leave them alone.

00:13:20: That is big learning And I did it in a different way the next time.

00:13:27: Yeah, thank you for sharing this joint business planning and Malaysia got another one.

00:13:37: regarding these cultural differences is about hierarchy and directness.

00:13:47: we often hear that Asian leadership cultures are more hierarchical and less direct than European, or maybe also American leadership cultures are.

00:13:58: How much truth is in that?

00:14:01: And how much do these generalizations rather mislead

00:14:05: us?".

00:14:05: In general what I experienced was that hierarchy is indeed perceived as something positive which gives safety stability.

00:14:16: Also, respect and politeness are very important behaviors in the business world.

00:14:25: Sometimes a direct approach like we would have it... A direct informal approach sometimes even across hierarchy levels can be rather perceived as threat or an offense that does not open discussion.

00:14:44: so for sure.

00:14:46: That's for sure a behavior I have been experiencing and also learning from this.

00:14:51: And how about trust?

00:14:55: Trust in teams, trust in leadership is maybe the most valuable and important currency you have as leader – that trust others has in you!

00:15:09: We cannot command trust.

00:15:12: we shouldn't just expect it.

00:15:15: I think the only way we can receive it is by earning trust.

00:15:19: Have you learned differences in the way how you earn trust?

00:15:27: In Asia versus other continents,

00:15:30: to achieve really an open discussion and own ideas to be presented specifically in Asia –I wouldn't say that's not the case here– there was a need to create atmosphere of trust for people Other than, you know an off-site meeting with having fun together.

00:15:52: I also try to create this atmosphere by preparing important business meetings in a different way for example approaching individuals upfront and really sharing with them, what is my expectation?

00:16:06: What are the questions to make it easier for them... ...to speak up in a meeting.

00:16:10: I would not have done that here in Europe but Asia thought was appropriate and if i can give an example we had important monthly market share meetings And this meeting was especially particularly important for the brand managers to speak-up and analysis of markets.

00:16:30: competitive data also present plans how we can come back to share growth.

00:16:35: I tell you this kind of meetings went very silent at the beginning and there was rather tense atmosphere, nobody wanted speak up especially if shares were bad and nobody want get exposed.

00:16:49: it wasn't expected that i would drive conclusions or make proposals so on.

00:16:56: So...I had change.

00:16:58: things really made people trusting that they can speak up.

00:17:03: So again, I approached the individuals before the meeting and shared expectations.

00:17:10: my questions made it easier for them to prepare and come back with an answer And in the meeting i really stood away from driving conclusions being very prominent in proposing action plans ask questions and let the people come forward answer that question.

00:17:32: That created more an atmosphere of trust, created a psychological safety for people in meetings became more lively and productive.

00:17:43: Yeah I can see very interesting learning probably more pronounced than Asia.

00:17:50: then.

00:17:51: same situation would have been another content as i get it striking another balance.

00:17:56: Anyone who has worked in international organizations, either having been part of a country organization or over central headquarter organization.

00:18:08: We all know that's another dilemma and sometimes struggle at least balance to strike.

00:18:17: when you reflect your time in Asia now Christiane how did you try to strike the right balance between something and aligned across eleven countries versus local differentiation?

00:18:33: That's a good question.

00:18:34: I tell you, the ASEAN cluster with eleven countries was probably most complex in the S.C.

00:18:39: Johnson world at that time when i took over.

00:18:45: it is important to know what markets can speak up or do from a local base.

00:18:53: on the other hand I believed in and i also work on having common leadership principles.

00:19:01: so what is our objective and how do we want to be seen by people outside the organization.

00:19:10: What are your common goals, market share goals etc?

00:19:15: And also as an ASEAN region, we aligned on how we want to execute and a strategy.

00:19:21: How do you call it built-to-win?

00:19:23: Where the foundation is how to successfully execute in each store all something which we said as a region.

00:19:30: We wanted have common principles and a common goal and we developed this together with regional leaders.

00:19:38: The country managers were part of leadership team.

00:19:41: They were going, they will be responsible for executing it.

00:19:46: Of course the interest between countries differ a lot and there was based on local competition market environment in their state of personal development.

00:19:58: one country asking more innovation from headquartered.

00:20:02: The other is asking marketing support like social media clips And others were asking for more people, physical people to support them build distribution.

00:20:13: I appreciate this because they know best how to win with the local shoppers and retailers not get headquartered but at the same time striking their balance.

00:20:25: my job was set priorities right in limited resources so be aligned on some criteria.

00:20:33: one of it is really size-of-the price.

00:20:36: Whatever your proposal is, it has to be a significant size of price.

00:20:40: It's important for us as the cluster and therefore sometimes we had to reject small proposals, small ideas for innovation if the size was not big enough And it was important that everybody understanding those criteria or selection criterias.

00:21:00: Another could have been, another was if you wanted to defend a local competitor and then maybe this proportional focus amount went into one specific country to fight this competitor.

00:21:13: But most importantly everybody had to understand those criteria and we were totally transparent about it.

00:21:21: Yeah let's talk about decisions And particularly challenging leadership situations situations that are difficult, right?

00:21:34: It's easy to lead well when the sun is shining and markets are growing.

00:21:39: And we grow with the market says.

00:21:41: it's easy leading but its much more shaping insightful When going gets tough.

00:21:50: have you had a particular leadership situation in your time in Asia That You found particularly difficult?

00:22:01: Yes and it made me wake up in the middle of night for a couple weeks.

00:22:08: It was about Indonesia, we had fantastic business growth.

00:22:14: when I was there quickly what was called out as global success model.

00:22:21: year later he faced massive break down both internally but also externally driven.

00:22:30: Despite it was foreseeable that they would last a little bit longer, I pushed the local team to stick their targets and deliver growth which had been committed at the beginning of this year.

00:22:48: This led bad business practices and some wrongdoing for individuals.

00:22:54: but it happened.

00:22:56: And for example, excessive inventory was built at our distributors without having a sellout plan.

00:23:03: Budgets were overspent and even intentionally wrong invoicing and payments happened.

00:23:11: so of course I had to intervene.

00:23:15: let some people go spend a lot time educating what's right And of course, we did not achieve our targets for this year.

00:23:27: For me personal learning it turned out that this pressure I put on people has in parts triggered this behavior and the local teams especially in this region.

00:23:39: they want to deliver their plan always.

00:23:43: They don't want to disappoint a boss no matter what And I learned a lot from this.

00:23:53: First of all, we shared a lot information and gave a lot of education came together as team and were transparent about what has happened... ...and explained also that there are zero tolerance if it comes to business practices.

00:24:09: they can never be compromised.

00:24:11: We always need the harder writing then easier wrong.

00:24:15: But I also trained the team that we need to learn to call out business crisis like this one earlier, which gives us allows us time to build alternative plans rather than hanging in and just trying to reach their original target no matter what.

00:24:33: Yeah a very valuable lesson you're sharing here Also linked to next question is about another balance which is the balance between developing people and delivering committed results.

00:24:49: Again, it's easy when both things work hand in hands.

00:24:53: It gets demanding when they don't.

00:24:56: So what is your learning so far Christian about?

00:25:01: The right balance between growing people And delivering results?

00:25:07: I think that um...it for sure goes together.

00:25:14: Growing people and delivering results is both important, but we cannot trade the one for the other.

00:25:21: For me this always also back to a leadership principle I work with which is that if you want it then do so!

00:25:36: At the beginning, there needs to be a vision.

00:25:39: Everybody can agree on something they believe and what motivates them – this is all I want!

00:25:46: And then... ...I need to develop my skills….

00:25:49: …and that means everybody in the team will be able to execute it as much as possible.

00:25:56: Last but not least—it's about doing well and executing well which is why we do so.

00:26:04: I develop people and how deliver the business, what i expect from teams that work with.

00:26:14: Yeah

00:26:14: yeah very...I love that philosophy.

00:26:17: it's on point very clear very memorable!

00:26:20: I really enjoy a lot.

00:26:21: one of other areas definitely people will be interested in learning about is focus.

00:26:29: like everybody your day also only has twenty four hours And one of the more difficult things is to decide what deserves time and does not.

00:26:43: That also a theme that I would say in last few years has become important for our clients.

00:26:53: The impression there was need deliver evermore, so how do you make this decision?

00:27:05: And what not?

00:27:06: I think that i could certainly delegate more, but it's about impactful delegation.

00:27:13: That is the example where role model behavior was desired and expected... ...and also to talk only a little bit about how.

00:27:32: And this helped me to be more impactful in delegation and that people benefited, find a reason for doing the task rather than having me do it.

00:27:46: This obviously gives me time and allows me focus on what is important.

00:27:54: Another one was saying no any short-term business strategies which are not sustainable and not in line with the company philosophy, and the company principles.

00:28:08: And it's also saying no to... In case of ASEAN say no too small initiatives even though they could have been super inspiring and also creative but there were simply two smalls that had a whole organization working against them.

00:28:24: so delegating in an effective way, I think that's for me something where i try to get more focused and also get more time.

00:28:39: Yeah great!

00:28:40: One of the things you mentioned early on is your energy for working internationally which is one of the red threads through life.

00:28:50: Let us imagine a young woman or man with high leadership potentials both just ahead of their first international leadership role.

00:29:04: Is there any advice you would give them?

00:29:07: Yeah, first off all I would say please do it!

00:29:09: It's super rewarding and i'm very happy that my two daughters also went internationally for their studies.

00:29:26: really internalize a company strategy and leadership principles before you move, because this is what will be expected from you.

00:29:34: That you'll able to talk about that and motivate other people.

00:29:38: follow the company's strategy.

00:29:40: Second I think it important that want-to-be role model... ...that learn how add value in different cultures which might have been different thing.

00:29:49: And last but not least be empathetic from others in a local culture.

00:29:56: show interest for the people there and ask a lot of questions.

00:30:00: Yeah, very good!

00:30:03: The topic of Questions again is read throughout the conversation.

00:30:07: you touched upon it a couple of times now.

00:30:12: zooming towards the close-up today There are two more things I'd like to do with.

00:30:17: first one is section that's called five.

00:30:20: quick questions can be asking also for quick short response Christian.

00:30:30: Number one, what is the best advice you ever received?

00:30:35: Be human and be authentic no matter What

00:30:39: love it!

00:30:40: Is there One leadership quality You used to underestimate?

00:30:46: Yes Also based on what I've been experienced in Indonesia i would say this about clarity and fast, consistent acting.

00:30:57: Don't wait if you spot a crisis or problem until it gets too late.

00:31:08: Have clarity and be fast and

00:31:09: consistent.".

00:31:10: What is your most important personal tool under pressure?

00:31:15: First of all keep calm!

00:31:17: If I have the time i would like to sleep it over... And second act consistently consistent with your leadership principles and your company's strategy.

00:31:30: Always, no matter how high the pressure is.

00:31:34: Is there one particular leadership habit from Asia that you would love to bring into Europe or to the US?

00:31:42: Team spirit and positive thinking interest in other cultures And last but not least speed Agility and Speed.

00:31:55: And then finally, is there one thing you do differently as a leader today compared to ten years ago?

00:32:03: If that's the only thing I could choose.

00:32:04: I would say ask more questions and open questions.

00:32:10: Very good!

00:32:10: Thank you so much for coming into this excellent conversation with Christian.

00:32:18: Is there any question you'd like to share with those women or men on the call any message or question you would like to share with them.

00:32:27: Yeah, let me ask what is your contribution?

00:32:31: Your leadership principle that you follow... ...your contributions towards people and business.

00:32:38: How can you improve the people who work with a little bit every day?

00:32:44: Love it!

00:32:46: It's been great, Christian.

00:32:47: I've learned a ton and I bet the listeners here have as well.

00:32:53: I thank you for your time.

00:33:10: I'm delighted that from twenty-twenty seven onwards, yeah?

00:33:13: You will be by our side... ...you'll be a part of our team and we can't wait to get going….

00:33:19: …and serve our clients together with you on my site.

00:33:23: so Thank you very much dear Christian Draming!

00:33:25: Thank you Stefan!

00:33:26: It was fun!

00:33:29: And you dear listener –I hope you enjoyed it– Thanks for turning in and looking forward for you to join in again into the Lightwolf Leadership Podcast.

00:33:39: See you soon!